MINUTES -
REGULAR MEETING
MUNICIPAL
MEETING ROOM
JUNE 24, 2002
Chairman
Braun called to order the regular meeting of the Wall Township Planning Board
at 7:40 P.M. Members present were
Braun, Tobia, Giardina, Farrell, Wilson, Attorney Rubino, Engineer Gerken, Special
Planner Maczuga, Recording Secretary Betty Schinestuhl and Court Reporter Arnone.
Chairman
Braun announced the meeting was being held in accordance with the “Sunshine
Law” and a resolution adopted on January 7, 2002.
Chairman
Braun announced Jerald Develop Group application will not be heard
tonight. It will be carried to August
5, 2002. He said the Board does not
have a quorum. He said no further
noticing is necessary.
NEW APPLICATION
WILLIAM G. BIEL - PB#41-2001
– 1629
Glendola Road, Block 762, Lots 11,
32 and 69, R-40 zone. Date application complete: October 26, 2001. Applicant seeks to subdivide the property
creating four new lots. Major
Subdivision with variance.
Attorney
Rubino reviewed the file and stated the Board had jurisdiction to proceed.
Timothy
B. Middleton, Esq. appeared for the applicant.
Sworn
by Reporter Arnone: Bruce
Connell, Engineer
William
Biel
Glenn
Gerken, Township Engineer
John
Maczuga, Special Planner
Entered
into evidence:
PB-1 Review letter from Glenn Gerken dated
December 14, 2001
PB-2 Review letter from John Maczuga dated
December 10, 2001
PB-3 Review letter from Glenn Gerken dated March
22, 2002
PB-4 Review letter from John Maczuga dated March
18, 2002
PB-5 Review letter from Wall Township Police
Department dated October 31, 2001
PB-6 Review letter from Wall Township Fire
Prevention dated November 9, 2001
PB-7 Review letter from Wall Township Fire
Prevention dated March 11, 2002
PB-8 Monmouth County Planning Board letter
PB-9 Monmouth County Board of Health letter dated
November 16, 2001
A-1 Jurisdictional items
A-2 Final map prepared by Birdsall Engineering dated August 24,
2001, last revised February 14, 2002
June
24, 2002 Page
2
A-3 Environmental Impact Statement prepared by Birdsall Engineering
dated October 4, 2001, revised February 14, 2002
A-4 Engineer’s Report and Technical Specifications prepared by
Birdsall Engineering dated June 1, 2002
A-5 Drainage Calculations prepared by Birdsall Engineering dated
October 3, 2001, revised February 12, 2002
A-6 Project Engineers report dated February 28, 2002
A-7 Preliminary and Final Subdivision plot prepared by Birdsall
Engineering dated August 26, 2001, revised October 22, 2001
A-8 Photos taken of dam next to pond
Attorney
Middleton stated the property is located off Glendola Road. It is in the R-40 zone. It is Block 762, Lots 32 and 11. They total almost eight acres. There are two houses, one on each lot. The
property also includes lot 69. They are
proposing to combine lots 11 and 32 and subdivide that into four separate lots,
11.01, 11.02, 11.03 and 11.04. Lot 69
will remain. He said some of the issues
involve lot 10. Lot 10 fronts Glendola
Road. It is surrounded by lots 11 and
32. Attorney Middleton said the owner
of lot 10, Mr. Godek, was going to purchase property from Mr. Biel to make his
lot conform but that has fallen through.
Mr. Biel is willing to give Mr. Godek a portion of his property to increase
the size of lot 10. If Mr. Godek is not
interested Mr. Biel is willing to plant a buffer between the new lots and Mr.
Godek’s property. He said the owner of
lot 11.04 would be responsible for the buffer.
That would be stated on the deed.
Mr.
Maczuga said he preferred the first option because it would eliminate the
maintenance of the buffer.
Attorney
Middleton said lot 69, which is owned by the DeLuca family, would be increased
so the lot would meet the square foot requirements. He said this would eliminate the variances for lot area and
building coverage.
Attorney
Middleton said if approved all four lots will conform to lot area.
Chairman
Braun said the Board will hear the application tonight but the property lines
will have to be redesigned before the next meeting. He also stated there are drainage issues that need to be
addressed. Chairman Braun stated Mr.
Gerken’s review letter from March needs to be addressed.
Mr.
Bruce Connell gave his credentials as both an engineer and planner which were
accepted by the Board.
Mr.
Connell testified that the property is on Glendola Road. He said the property is south of Belmar
Boulevard. He said a 500’ cul-de-sac
will be created. It will be named Hidden
Pond Court. Mr. Connell said the
property is 7.73 acres. He said lot 69
will be increased in size to 40,000 s.f.
Mr.
Connell said DEP permits will be applied for by the applicant regarding the
dam. The dam is
located
on lot 11.01. The owner of that
property will be responsible for the upkeep.
Mr. Gerken said the Board needs additional information on the dam. He said he hopes the dam is a Class 4
June
24, 2002 Page
3
dam
and not higher because of the required inspections. Mr. Gerken said there are state
regulations
regarding the dam. They are based on the
size of the dam.
Mr.
Connell said the owners of lots 11.01 and 11.02 will maintain the pond.
Mr.
Connell gave the sizes of the proposed lots.
Lot 11.01, 90,934 s.f.; lot 11.02, 106,117 s.f.; lot 11.03, 41,491 and
lot 11.04, 61,531 s.f.
Mr.
Maczuga said he would like to see some sort of plan regarding access to
Glendola Road and the exit onto Hidden Pond Court.
Mr.
Giardina asked about curbing. Mr.
Connell said they will install curbing.
Attorney
Rubino suggested the applicant send a certified letter to Mr. Godek within 10
days offering him the free property and giving him 30 days to respond. Attorney Rubino said if Mr. Godek does not
respond the applicant should submit plans including the buffer.
Attorney
Rubino also suggested the applicant have the drainage report complete before
the next hearing.
Mr.
Tobia said the letter from Wall Township Fire Prevention had concerns regarding
the name of the street. Attorney
Middleton said they can change that.
Mr. Tobia said if there is a name change that should be reflected on the
plan.
Attorney
Rubino said a TRC should be scheduled for sometime in August.
Chairman
Braun asked if any member of the public had any questions. Chairman Braun said the plans will
change. The public will have the
opportunity to ask questions at the next meeting.
Chairman
Braun said the application is carried to September 9, 2002. No further noticing is needed.
The
Board recessed at 8:30 P.M.
The
meeting resumed at 8:45 P.M.
CHRIS AND BETTY FERRY – PB#8-2002 – 1837 Old Mill Road, Block 270, Lot 26, HB-80 zone. Date application complete: April 23,
2002. Applicant seeks to convert an
existing bakery into a children’s museum.
Site Plan with variances.
Attorney
Rubino reviewed the file and stated the Board had jurisdiction to proceed.
Entered
into evidence:
A-1 Jurisdictional Items
A-2 Map prepared by Birdsall Engineering dated
March 1, 2002, revised June 7, 2002
June
24, 2002 Page
4
A-3 Engineer’s Report and Technical Specifications prepared by
Birdsall Engineering dated February 2002, revised June 2002
A-4 Drainage Calculations prepared by Birdsall Engineering dated
March 1, 2002, revised June 5, 2002
A-5 Traffic Impact Report prepared by Birdsall Engineering dated
March 25, 2002
A-6 Parking Report dated June 5, 2002
A-7 Colored Rendering of proposed museum
A-8 Photo of existing site
A-9 Composite of colored rendering
A-10 Mounted architectural
A-11 Colored rendering of A07
PB-1 Review letter from Glenn Gerken dated May 28, 2002
PB-2 Review letter from John Maczuga dated May 13, 2002
PB-3 Wall Township Police Department letter dated May 5, 2002
PB-4 Wall Township Fire Prevention letter dated April 10, 2002
PB-5 Review letter from John Maczuga dated June 17, 2002
Sworn by Reporter Arnone: Glenn Gerken, Township
Engineer
John
Maczuga, Special Planner
Chris
Ferry
Beth
Ferry
Joseph Latke,
Engineer
Chris
Wright, Architect
Walter Schoenewolf, Esq.
appeared for the applicant.
Attorney Schoenewolf
explained the applicant is proposing to convert the Wonder Bread store
into a Children’s
museum. The site is located on Block
270, Lot 26. It is located in the HB-80
zone. Attorney Schoenewolf said there is a need
for this museum. There is nothing
similar in the
area.
Mr.
Ferry said he is proposing to convert the Wonder Bread store into a first class
children’s museum. He said it would be
a place where families and schools can go to play and learn and enjoy
themselves. It will be a hands on
museum. He said children will come to
create, explore and share ideas with their families and teachers. It is a place where children will play to
learn and adults will learn to play.
Mr. Ferry said he and his wife have visited 15 children’s museums across
the country. He said there will be a wide
variety of things kids can do. Mr.
Ferry said he and his wife are members of the Association of Children’s
Museums. He said Mrs. Ferry holds a
master’s degree in education.
Mr.
Ferry explained this will be geared toward children one to ten years old. The hours will be from 10:00 A.M. – 5:00
P.M., seven days a week. He said peak
times will be in the AM. Mr. Ferry said
during the week there may be nine cars coming and going at one time. He said maybe 12 on the weekends. He said there will not be a food court. He said they will have vending
machines.
June
24, 2002 Page
5
Attorney
Rubino clarified that there would be no restaurants that would be serving the
outside. Mr. Ferry said that is
correct.
Mr.
Ferry went over the parking report. He
explained the parking situation for other museums of the same size.
Chairman
Braun stated the Board needs to understand Mr. Ferry’s definition of museum so
the Board can understand how many people will visit the site. Mr. Ferry said he did provide a parking
report. He said based on his research
the maximum number of cars on site at one time will be about 30. There may be three buses at one time. He said he will book the schools so he’ll
know how many there will be at one time.
He said they will follow all code enforcement regulations as far as how
many people are allowed in the building at one time.
Chairman
Braun asked, during 10:00 A.M. – 12:00 P.M. on a Saturday, do people need an
appointment. Mr. Ferry said families
can come in without appointments. He
said the parking lot will more than handle that. He said they are allowing for 54 spots.
Mr.
Giardina asked how long do families usually stay. Mr. Ferry said about two hours.
Mr.
Giardina asked how they would control the crowd. Mr. Ferry said at the door.
Mr.
Tobia asked about employees. Mr. Ferry
said there will be six employees at any given time. He said parents come and stay with their kids and then leave with
them.
Mr.
Giardina asked about underage children.
Mr. Ferry said they have to be accompanied with an adult, 18 years or
older. He said they will I.D.
them. He said the parents have to stay
with their children at all times.
Chairman
Braun asked if it was like a McDonald’s playground. Mr. Ferry said McDonald’s does not provide anyone to make sure
parents are watching their kids. He
said he will provide that at all times.
Ms.
Wilson asked for a typical agenda for a one or two year old. Mr. Ferry said there will be a number of
things to do. He said there will be a
roll playing town center. Children can
pretend to be doctors or employees in a pet shop or music shop. He said there will be buttons and knobs with
bells and whistles that children can touch.
There will also be a craft center.
There will plenty of learning aspects.
Ms. Wilson said this sounds more activity based. Mr. Ferry said he would like to think they
will be doing everything.
Mr.
Giardina said the Board is thinking of an art museum, etc. He said that is what sticks in his
mind.
Attorney
Rubino asked Mr. Maczuga if he was comfortable with Mr. Ferry’s proposal in
relation to township ordinances. Mr.
Maczuga said he would have to research whether or not such a
museum
is a permitted use.
June
24, 2002 Page
6
Attorney
Schoenewolf said he would provide the Board with information from the
Association of Children’s Museums.
Mr.
Ferry went over the four sites he visited.
Imagine That is 10,000 s.f. located in a strip mall in Middletown;
Wonder Museum is 16,000 s.f. located in East Windsor; the Garden State
Discovery Museum is 16,000 s.f. located in Cherry Hill and the New Jersey
Children’s Museum located in Paramus is 15,000 s.f. Mr. Ferry said he visited each museum during the week and on the
weekends. Mr. Ferry went over the cars
visiting each site. He said there were
more on the weekends.
Attorney
Schoenewolf said there is no need for a loading dock. Mr. Ferry agreed.
Mr.
Walton asked if they would hold birthday parties. Mr. Ferry said yes, they would book a certain number of
parties.
Attorney
Rubino said the Board’s concern is about parking. Mr. Ferry went over the parking at the museums he visited. He said at the Wonder Museum, a stand alone
building, had a total of 37 cars. Each
car stayed approximately two hours. Mr.
Ferry said in a two hour period, from 10:00 A.M. – noon, ten cars came onto the
site. He said over the entire day there
were 37 cars. Mr. Ferry said at the
facility in Cherry Hill from 9:30 A.M. – noon seven cars per hour came onto the
property.
Attorney
Rubino asked the applicant if he felt comfortable with 54 parking spots. Mr. Ferry said he feels comfortable with
that number.
Mr.
Tobia asked for the telephone number for the Association of Children’s
Museums. Mr. Ferry said he will provide
it.
Mr.
Tobia asked what Mr. Ferry anticipated the total number of individuals to visit
the museum on any given day. Mr. Ferry
said, at the most, about 180 people.
Mr.
Tobia asked what the charge would be.
Mr. Ferry said they estimate approximately $7.95 per person.
Mr.
Tobia asked if the Association of Children’s Museums had guidelines. Mr. Ferry said they have provided a wealth
of information.
Mr.
Tobia asked if this museum was for profit or non-profit. Mr. Ferry said for profit.
Ms.
Wilson asked if the Association of Children’s Museums had any data on
attendance statistics. Mr. Ferry said
he would find those figures.
Chairman
Braun said the Board did not understand the use at the outset. He said the Board wants to encourage these
types of things. He said this can be
very successful. He said a number of
June
24, 2002 Page
7
issues
need to be addressed. Chairman Braun
said the parking issue is very important to the Board. He said there are other issues such as the
affect on traffic, the total capacity of parents and children. He said the Board has a concern regarding
the intersection onto Route 35. He said
the Board does not want to see the driveway jammed up on a Saturday morning.
Mr.
Tobia said his concern is that the site could be over utilized. He asked if any type of formal traffic study
had been done. Attorney Schoenewolf
said a traffic study has been done. He
said it was submitted to the Board. He
said a traffic impact study was done by Birdsall Engineering.
Attorney
Rubino said that the applicant should contact a traffic engineer to do a report
at other children’s museums and have it ready for the next hearing. Attorney Rubino said the Board could contact
Mr. Ney, who the board has used as a consultant on certain applications. Chairman Braun said he had hoped the traffic
expert would testify. Mr. Tobia said
the reason for this is the Board is concerned about the parking. He said the Board wants to make sure there
is not a parking problem two years from now.
Chairman
Braun said this application will be carried to August 26, 2002.
Mr.
Gerken said he had a few minor issues regarding engineering.
Chairman
Braun said the Board has concerns regarding the rendering. He said the Board is concerned with the yellow
sunburst and night sky on the building.
He said the Board has to be concerned whether that is a sign or a
logo. Mr. Tobia said he felt it was a
sign. He said the Board should hear
testimony to see if the decoration could be downplayed.
Mr.
Ferry said it is decorative. He said it
is neither a sign nor a logo. He said
it is not part of the advertising. He
said they were trying to be creative.
Mr. Ferry said if the Board would prefer a white building that is
ok. Chairman Braun said the Board prefers
earth tones.
Chairman
Braun asked if anyone had any objections.
There was one person in the audience that stated he had some
concerns. Chairman Braun said he would
have an opportunity to speak at the next meeting.
Attorney
Rubino said the traffic report should be done by the middle of July so Mr. Ney
can review it.
Chairman
Braun said the traffic is very different between the weekdays and
weekends. He said what the Board needs
to know is whether the facility is going to be able to handle the traffic.
Chairman
Braun said this application is carried to August 26, 2002. He said no further noticing is
required. Attorney Schoenewolf waived
the time limits.
RESOLUTION TO BE
MEMORIALIZED
June
24, 2002 Page
8
WILLIAM FRANK – RGH HOMES –
PB#7-2002
Attorney
Rubino read the resolution of approval.
Mr. Giardina moved to adopt the resolution as read. Ms. Wilson seconded the motion, which was
unanimously approved by a roll call vote.
(Mr. Giardina, Ms. Wilson, Messrs. Tobia and Braun voted yes.)
There
being no further business to come before the Board, a motion was made, seconded
and unanimously approved to adjourn the meeting at 10:00 P.M.
Respectfully
submitted,
Betty
Schinestuhl
Recording
Secretary